fascinates: (abstract | red)
nikki ♫ ([personal profile] fascinates) wrote2012-03-04 01:00 am

On Entitlement Issues, or Why You Shouldn't Hate Amatsuki or ORYO

These two issues are both pretty old, but has a striking effect on Vocaloid/utattemita non-Japanese, particularly to those active in YT and/or Tumblr. I don't know enough of either issue to meddle personally or to give my two cents to the people involved, so you get to read my tl;dr thoughts here. I just feel it's unfair that Amatsuki or ORYO can't explain their sentiments to their non-Japanese fans. This is just to get them off my chest, so feel free to ignore or do whatever you want after reading this.

Please remember that I am not pointing fingers nor blaming anyone. I am stating the facts regarding the issues and my thoughts on the behavior of fans after that.



So, first, we go to Strawberry Mint's bout with ORYO. To make it short, SM is a chorus group who is in the middle of a chorus battle and they chose ORYO's song for one of their entries. However, they didn't notice/read that ORYO has a terms of use in the .zip file of the song that they downloaded. The terms include a note that uploading outside Nico Nico Douga is not allowed. They uploaded it in YT and were late in realizing they broke the rule, ORYO found out about it, bitched about it in his account, they apologized profusely and reupped the video instead in NND, but ORYO seemed still kinda pissed and they are also pissed at him.

Second is the tumblr people vs. Amatsuki issue. To make it short, someone made an Amatsuki-Anon account. For those who aren't into tumblr, it's supposed to be a blog all about Amatsuki, with his songs, info, pictures (from blogs/twitter/magazines/etc.) and probably some RP-ing. Amatsuki learned about the blog and asked the owner to take down his photos. In her panic, the owner closed the blog and caused panic among the other utaite-anons (?) and people now hate Amatsuki for forcing her to do that.

These are very shortened versions, so the drama behind them might seem subdued but anyway...


Both people ended up being hated by a lot of people, to the point that they're boycotting them. Some people said they won't listen to ORYO's compositions anymore while some said they won't support Amatsuki's projects/songs anymore. It's a natural reaction, I think. Being reprimanded makes people embarrassed or frustrated for a short time and it's normal that they feel angry or violent towards the person who reprimanded them. But the thing is, I don't get why people are so mad to the point of boycotting until now, even saying some things that are quite unreasonable. Here are some of those things I don't get. I'll try to number the things I'll discuss, but they're all pretty much related.

1. Amatsuki and ORYO are selfish.
ORYO doesn't want derivatives/re-ups of his works outside NND, Amatsuki doesn't want his pictures reposted outside his twitter/blog. Yes, they do seem like jerks for not sharing. But let's keep in mind that these are their works. Whether people like it or not, these works are legally theirs, copyrighted even. They can do anything they want with it and they can expect people to follow their terms. I think it is just fair that they can set rules and stop people if they like it because the work is THEIRS.

Copyright is a tight area in the Vocaloid/utattemita-dom. You see utaite being criticized for illegally covering works. You see fanartists who are condemned because they “traced” works. You see producers being forced on hiatus because their song just happened to sound like this certain j-pop song. There was a time I was even advised to change my translation in [community profile] onsenjikan because the nuance in my translation is different from what the P intends in the song, even though we know songs are open for interpretation. It's a strict fandom because everyone is creating something. Hence, it's even more necessary to protect what we own.

It's like a person who draws art and someone iconned that art. She asks for the icons to be taken down because she doesn't feel comfortable that someone else is getting credit for the stuff she did. Or, on a closer note, for example I wrote something in [community profile] ofurotaimu, a long article. Someone reposts it in another site and I don't like seeing my work somewhere else so I ask the person to stop reposting my works. Those are two similar situations. People can have various reasons to control sharing of their works/stuff, but it all boils down to: They own it, they can control how it is used/shared.



2. Amatsuki and ORYO shouldn't have been VocaloidP/utaite if they don't want their pictures/works to be used/shared!
Amatsuki's photos (as well as any other utaites) are shared because he's cute and popular. ORYO's works are covered/shared because he has wonderful, sexy guitars/drums in his songs (/cough). They shouldn't complain that people are using/sharing their stuff because it's their fault they're so popular! ...Um, not.

See, first and foremost, utaite and VocaloPs weren't even popular. They were just once normal people like us uploading their works in NND just for the heck of it or to gain attention from JAPANESE fans. Even now, they're still normal people. It just so happened that they get thousands of views for their works each day. But, it's not their fault they're popular, it's actually our fault that they are. Who are the ones who invaded Nico Nico Douga and their videos even though they barely understood Japanese? Who are the ones who tried contacting/talking to NND people in twitter despite being not Japanese? Who are the ones who used shipping services to buy expensive CDs which content they barely understand? Yup, that's us.

They're popular outside Japan because we decided to be their fans. Most of them didn't even intend to have a non-JP fandom, wait...most of them don't even know of the existence of a fandom outside Japan until recently! So, you can't put the blame on them for being popular. It's not like they have this grand evil plan to be popular. A person who is addressed as an utaite/vocaloidP isn't always famous. Most of them actually just upload things, whether they get views or not, because they want to. Most of them, you probably don't even know the names. How about you? Do you upload your songs in YT/NND or take photos for your twitter because you want to be popular or because you just felt like doing it?



3. Amatsuki and ORYO are rude bastards.
When the issues came out, both Amatsuki and ORYO posted in twitter to report of the incidents. Amatsuki said in his twitter that he told a blog (owner) to stop uploading his photos and that people should tell him if there are other circumstances like that. ORYO was a bit more hostile, saying that people who don't respect his ToU are dirty, deceiving people and he'll definitely not allow what they're doing.

I'm sure everyone has done this. Heck I HAVE. There was a time a site was reposting all of my entries in ofurotaimu that I became super offended. I typed in twitter, “Some people are idiots who can't respect my requests about my posts.” or something similar. I think most of you would've also typed the same thing if one of your works/stuff has been used or reposted without your permission, right? Imagine uploading a picture in twitpic or FB and then finding the same picture in tumblr. I'm sure most of you would go, “that freaking tumblr bitch who stole my picture you can diaf!!!!!!!!!”. Well, in many ways the reaction could be different, but the sentiment is the same.

Amatsuki and ORYO's tweets, both have strong words in a sense. They might come of as...well, bastards, especially if you're the ones they're talking about. But you must notice one thing here: they didn't use any names/nationality/location of the blog or upload. They didn't even link to it or RT the replies of the involved people. I also think ORYO's strongest words were tweeted before anyone contacted him regarding the upload, so it's probably anger of someone who was informed in a roundabout way instead of being contacted directly. While talking to the people involved, I doubt they even used rude Japanese. They might have come off angry (it's normal), but I'm pretty sure they used polite language. Politeness is a mask of anger, but it's also an indication that you still respect the person you're talking to, no matter what the situation is.

On the other hand, people who hated them go “YO ORYO I WON'T BE WATCHING YOUR VIDEOS YOU BASTARD” or “I CAN'T RESPECT YOU ANYMORE AMATSUKI YOU LOWLIFE”. Can you see the difference?

If you still aren't convinced, there was one time I asked a P about reupping his works in YT and how he felt about it. He gave a very vague explanation (he doesn't like it, but it's inevitable because people do what they want anyway) and we ended up debating a bit. After our convo, which was clearly seen by everyone, he tweeted (without addressing me), “Ah, so many idiots in this world. I want to punch one right now.” You might be curious how I took it, of course I took it badly, since I didn't even do anything illegal to anger him. Of course it also couldn't have been me he was talking about but the coincidence is just amazing. But until now I support his works because he's a wonderful P with beautiful works and while we don't talk anymore, I kind of understand that I just stepped on a nerve or something that time and just forget about it.



4. Amatsuki and ORYO should've put up glaring signs in English about their terms of use.
ORYO's terms of use is a .txt file filled with a jargon of a note. Amatsuki didn't have any note in his blog about being anti-fair use. They should've provided clearer or even better, English versions of their warnings so that people know about them. That is true, but to be honest, there's a few reasons they probably have so they didn't. For one, Amatsuki couldn't have possibly known that someone would be interested enough to post all of his pictures to another site. ORYO probably thought that if people can sing his songs, they can probably read his terms, right? I mean, the song is in Japanese, too. There can be a hundred reasons. But really, I think they just couldn't be bothered. If I knew my posts in Ofuro would be reposted in Indonesian/Vietnamese/Japanese sites, do you think I'd make a ToU in these languages? No way. If they want to use my English posts, people should go through my English ToU. If you guys think otherwise, you should try doing a multilingual FAQ or terms.



What I don't understand from all these points, is the self-entitlement we're all showing. First and foremost, this is not a fandom for us. We just joined in the fun and they made space for us. Also, it's not really a matter of who's in charge or what. It's hard to believe but we're all in level ground here: the fans, the Ps, the utaites. We're all normal people and some just had talent, that's all. So, if we want to be respected, we should also give respect where it's due. If you can't seem to get a hold of reason, try thinking in their shoes. What would you do if someone from a foreign country takes your stuff without permission and reuses it in a way you find offensive? Please don't tell me you'll let it slide.



Well, in the end, this is just my opinion and I am not all-knowing. I'm just someone who wants to have some peace and quiet in the fandom. I'm sure we all do.
drillboat: (TYB 「......」)

[personal profile] drillboat 2012-03-03 05:31 pm (UTC)(link)
throwing my opinion over these two issues /though i already done some tl;dr on livejournal and tumblr lol.

i agree on most of your point there nikki, and those 'ignorant' fans will hopefully realize that they're doing that while gain nothing. "so what if you stopped listening to ORYO's work or amatsuki's cover? do they even bother?" i don't think so. and like i said on my post, hating someone bc they're so strict with their COPYRIGHTED stuff is just plain stupid. well i guess we WOULD do the same if our own stuff got publicized like that (as if the photo edits stealing thing on tumblr is not enough lol)

and actually, my reason to started making covers was bc i enjoyed singing as much i enjoy writing lol
kazeyumi: (歌い手: ねるたああああん!)

[personal profile] kazeyumi 2012-03-03 06:07 pm (UTC)(link)
how big of a fandom is striking against them? I'm not familiar with ORYO and Amatsuki, but "striking" against them is childish, immature and pointless. It's not even a surprise that these people do not want their stuff uploaded elsewhere. And that's not even being selfish at all. it's called privacy. Everyone is entitled to that.

Amatsuki and ORYO should've put up glaring signs in English about their terms of use.
I think fans should have asked first, if they weren't sure. Like your icon example above, tt's like using DeviantArt pieces as your icons. Not all of them have the "do not use without permission" rule written down, but that doesn't give fans an excuse to just go ahead and use it.

Although. it was wrong and extremely low of them to tweet saying “Some people are idiots who can't respect my requests about my posts.”, for sure, but i agree with nikki, no point in hating AT ALL.

“Ah, so many idiots in this world. I want to punch one right now.”
So very close minded. I am disappoint at whoever this is. :(

I hope the 'angry' fans will be able to read this entry. Beautiful post, this is.
nanamka: (Default)

[personal profile] nanamka 2012-03-03 06:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, hello another brawl. Seriously, I wonder who now remember about many previous ones. But it's a good thing if they are just a past now.

I think it's the power of youth, Nikki! You know, rebellious age. Young people nowadays (...not like I'm such obaasan myself ;A;) have Internet access since young age and just can't grasp that it's not the endless source of files, free to use whatever they want to. And they weren't fans in the first place if they change sides so easily. It's just sad they must share their opinion with their used-to-be-idol. :|

Plus there is always cultural and language barrier. Some people tend to forget about it, but it's pretty easy to be misunderstood. And if it happens, respect is neccessary. It just turns pathetic otherwise.

I only find one thing weird. Amatsuki and Oryo commented all in Japanese, right? No one should expect them to reply in English. And let's say, people in chorus don't know Japanese (since they couldn't / hadn't read terms of use) so they should not be able to read their tweets either. So it was just message to other Japanese people? Or maybe language barrier is too great... orz

Plus, I always am extremly careful with this fandom, just precisely it's specific. People who got into utattemita thorough YT, not interested in getting closer, could really see them as popular idols. And like, there's no way like such great person would trouble himself with minding what their fans are doing. Or sth like that.
southerncross: (Default)

[personal profile] southerncross 2012-03-03 07:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I should've saved what I posted in plurk~ :D I can't find the thread anymore. But mostly, I agree with everything you said.

Remember, I saw everything unfold with the Oryo issue. It was so tiring and embarrassing especially since all the uproar was caused because of misunderstanding. Everyone was just making excuses about the whole thing. They can't even comprehend that what they've done is incorrect. Surely, the tweets were hurtful but the way everything was twisted around to make them the victim disgusts me.

Also, I don't like their argument that "we're reupping/covering/reposting their work so they'll be more popular". What load of BS. If you really are a fan, there are other ways to pimp a person without violating his rules.

Do you upload your songs in YT/NND or take photos for your twitter because you want to be popular or because you just felt like doing it?

I know someone who just wants to be popular /shotshotshot